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Submitted on Sep 6, 2005
by torimac73

Identified fonts

Studio Script Alt (ITC)
Preview Image
Identified by solarsim
TF Saginaw Medium
No sample available
Identified by solarsim
click for full-size image

I have seen this font on a webiste: http://www.3day.com/

Does anyone know what it is please? Or better still is there a free font similar?

3647d 8h 18m 32s ago

Responses

solarsim:

The sample is Saginaw Medium by Treacyfaces. Their site seems to be down at the moment.

http://www.treacyfaces.com/sample.html

3647d 7h 56m 52s ago
solarsim:

Font identified as TF Saginaw Medium.

There are a few alternate characters on that 3day.com site like the “s” but it still looks like Saginaw to me. May be it’s a custom font or there’s a copy at dafont?

For something similar, try Angelina...

http://www.dafont.com/en/font.php?file=angelina

Case marked solved.

3647d 7h 47m 28s ago
solarsim:

Font identified as Studio Script Alt.

Studio Script Regular and Alt are similar also.

3647d 7h 13m 4s ago
solarsim:

I think you can get all the characters from Studio Script plus the Alt sets.

3647d 7h 9m 19s ago
treacyfaces:

Hello, all -

Treacyfaces.com has been running all day, and in fact we've been fielding orders from across the globe. Treacyfaces.com is typically up and running 99.9 percent of the time. Perhaps more.

Some ISPs block other ISPs intermittently because of the ongoing world wide problem of spamming. If you are having a problem accessing treacyfaces.com from your region, please let us know.

Oddly, yesterday, a U.S. holiday, was one of our biggest single days of the year.

TFSaginaw is always available at treacyfaces.com

In fact, I recently expanded the family to include many more weights. You would find, too, that the letterfit is quite a bit better than the sample provided to this thread.

TFSaginaw is now more useful than ever, with much more variety than the pretenders.

I have a question:

Is it the purpose of What The Font to point to knockoffs when original designs are available?

If the answer is ‘yes’, then that’s surely a sad commentary on the current state of how people interact with type.

I sometimes see posts regarding fonts from knockoff font sites here, often with the URL of the site in the picture sample.

That seems to soil What The Font, in my opinion. WTF is otherwise is an excellent informational tool and MyFonts.com should be congratulated for introducing it. And the gurus here should be commended for their seemingly indefatiguable yeoman effort.

It’s a fact that today, commercial fonts on average cost just one-sixth (1/6) of what they cost in 1980. It’s true.

The promise of electronic publishing devised by the visionaries of the early 1980s was realized:

It made more high quality commercial tools, including type, available for design professionals to have direct control over, while making the software much more easy to budget for.

Please don't patronize knockoff type or stolen fonts. The legitimate type industry needs your support.

Regards,

(Joe)

Joseph D. Treacy
President & Director of Typography
Treacyfaces, Inc.
treacyfaces.com
-------------------------------

3646d 22h 58m 38s ago
Mike F.:

Joe - as another of the regular font identifiers here, I must first point out that we are simply volunteers working on our own time and, thus, you are addressing the wrong folks. You need to complain to the folks who own and run MyFonts. Not long ago, I pointed out to them an obvious knockoff and they promptly thanked me for the info and pulled the knockoff.
http://www.myfonts.com/Contact

That occurrence, though, involved a recent, small type foundry. The original font involved and the dates of font creation made clear which was the knockoff. To the few of us here who act as moderators, the case of Saginaw vs. Studio Script may not be so clear.

Studio Script, per the Linotype website, was created by Robert Evans in 1991:
http://www.linotype.com/7-381-7/robertevans.html

Your website, to the best of my knowledge, is the ONLY place one may legitimately obtain Saginaw and I can find there no info whatsoever about the splendid fonts that you offer for sale. When did you digitize Saginaw? Did you also design it? If not, what is the typeface’s history (Headliners?)? Do you own the exclusive rights to the face?

I'm honestly interested in Saginaw’s history (and I hope that you do tell us about it), but expecting we volunteer moderators to know all of these facts is not reasonable. I knew, when this double identification arose, that you would pop in, as you always do when TF’s are mentioned here (it’s kind of like summoning a ghost at a type seance). It’s always great to hear directly from a font creator. I expected clarification, though, not an attack. You need to present your case to the MyFonts honchos and, beyond that, it would seem, to ITC.

Lastly, I very much resent your inference that we, here, willy-nilly point folks to knockoffs of commercial fonts. That just plain doesn't happen and, if you do spend any time here beyond the occasional TF-related appearances, you know that such links are removed and the original font is pointed to, instead. I did exactly that, as a matter of fact, several months ago when a clone of Saginaw (I won't name it. I'm sure that you are well aware of it) that is floating about the Web was linked to. I deleted the link and pointed the poster to your website.

If you meant, rather, that we point folks to free font sites, then, yes, we do. Many of the graphics posted were created using a legitimately free font and we tell the poster what it was. We try our best to link to the original source of the font or to an archive that strives to keep out commercial fonts and clones of them.

3645d 10h 59m 27s ago
treacyfaces:

Actually, Robert Evans created Saginaw, which he had formerly named Laramie, around 1960. The Headliners studio then also had two other related designs – Sherbrooke, and Cranbrooke – now long retired and folded into Laramie. All were outgrowths of ‘Ruling Pen Script’ headlines he and other Headliners studio artists had created for ad headlines for ad agencies mostly located in New York City.

Originally, there was only the Light weight, and he was so fond of the design, he used it for the Headliners logo lettering.

During the 1970s, Headliners reworked much of their type collection into what they reintroduced as Headliners neo-PhotoTypes. Laramie was marketed as neo-Laramie. By the early 1970s, there were three weights: Light, Medium, Bold.

Robert himself decided, around 1992, to rename the typeface neo-Laramie as Saginaw, for reasons that I suppose made sense at the time. This was as older phototype foundries were updating their collections in digital form.

The important thing to be aware of is that it’s the same design. It was Headliners itself which chose to reintroduce the design for the digital age, with a new name.

When Treacyfaces took over Headliners in 1995, we renamed Saginaw as TFSaginaw. It was Robert’s desire that the Headliners collection be blended into the Treacyfaces collection and marketed as one. So, Headliners designs took on our naming structure.

In 1995, I started redrawing and adding things not in the first digital version of Saginaw that Headliners released in 1992. We released several new versions of the Light, Medium and Bold between 1995 and 2001.

But in the UK and Europe, many Mac-based customers who purchased Saginaw actually got Headliners' 1992 version, which was quite buggy and had an incomplete Western encoding character set, because some resellers active then that Headliners had prior relationships with, continued to give their customers the buggy versions. Despite that we immediately had fixed the data that Headliners had created in 1992 and made the resellers aware of its availability.

Headliners themselves starting in 1992 to digitize their faces, had only made and offered Mac PS Type 1 versions, never PC versions.

Any Headliners Saginaw customers out there still using the 1992 version with an ‘H’ logo icon, really should contact us for an upgrade.

As near as I can tell, the knockoffs of Saginaw that are regularly posted were cloned from Headliners' buggy 1992 version, not our 1995 and later versions.

I also feel badly for anyone who has chosen to use one of those clones, then, for obvious reasons.

By 2003, I completed new weights: Extrabold, Heavy, Black, Extra Black, Solid, and Ultra. There are also outline shadow versions whose weight names we call Sleek One, Sleek Two and Sleek Three.

So, TFSaginaw now has 12 varieties, and I'm pleased to be able to bring forward very faithfully, this landmark type design and family.

3645d 8h 7m 18s ago
J-Louise Heron:

Eveyone please stay calm.

Everything you wrote is fine.

Knowing Philippe’s writing skills about typefaces, and the book he is about to publish, I think it would be nice if Joe Treacy gave us the history of his typefaces. If he hasn't exceeded his page count, I can see you'd even have his fonts published for the folks that are still involved or just love to know about TYPE.

Dear Joe,

If you haven't noticed, then please start looking through the 15,000+ IDs that have been made. Very rarely is there a “free” font shown when a true commerical font is available.

I am also a moderator on one of the shareware/freeware sites - www.dafont.com. I am very impressed by the new generation of designers, that understand to give credit to the designers of fonts. When a knock-off is discovered, and they are almost daily - Rodolphe without hesitation, removes the knockoff. See for yourself, he leaves reminders at the bottom of: http://dafont.com/en/. Also, on that site, if anyone dares ask for a FREE font of a commerical - let me put it this way, I'm sure you've heard New Yorkers are rude - these guys are French - they make the average NYer look extremely polite.

I happened to be helping a designer, Kevin aka choc name what fonts Disney films used - and came across this old thread: http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/forum/case/11450/
Why don't you start with that one - to get the feeling of what the overall around here is - this is typical WTF identification...

Philippe is right - we are volunteers. We do not get any kind of renumeration, besides the occasional “thank you” and this is our free time we are using... (and some of us have had to put up with the occasional A-hole, who don't like our answers when it isn't a font...) Many of us have better things to do with our lives, me included, but the old typographer in me - just loves coming here and helping people discover what the font is - and if not, what font is close enough to use as a quick substitute.

I also enjoy coming for Philippe2 and Mike F. explanations and history of some of what we are discovering. As well as giving admiration to Takesha and Akira and so many of the other “regulars” and their knowledge of type - btw, of which not all speak English!

If you insist on coming here to shamelessly plug your company, (don't you realize when you show here, the font has already been identified as one of yours - along with a link for the person to go to in case he/she wants to buy it?) and berate those of us that have made this our internet home, then please stay away. If on the other hand, you choose to come and be helpful - then by all means stay.

We have a hard enough time educating the novices out there - we didn't think we'd have to educate you as well.

3645d 7h 36m 53s ago
treacyfaces:

Hello, heron2001 –

This seems like a pretty calm exchange to me. I'm certainly calm.

I'm honestly surprised by your

>>>>>>>>>>>
If you insist on coming here to shamelessly plug your company, (don't you realize when you show here, the font has already been identified as one of yours - along with a link for the person to go to in case he/she wants to buy it?) and berate those of us that have made this our internet home, then please stay away. If on the other hand, you choose to come and be helpful - then by all means stay.

We have a hard enough time educating the novices out there - we didn't think we'd have to educate you as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>

after you yourself first brought this particular thread to my attention.

Yes, I'm aware that by the time I see a thread here, generally the volunteers here have identified the font family. I've noticed that a weight name might be incorrect, and I've suggested the correct weight name. Sometimes those asking persist in asking whether there’s ‘a free version out there’. Am I wrong to add helpful information, if the goal is education?

And re-reading what I wrote, I don't believe I'm berating anyone – except people who request knockoff fonts. If it’s being interpreted that I'm berating anyone in the WTF staff, please re-read what I wrote. There was absolutely no intention to berate anyone on the WTF staff.

Mike F. said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We try our best to link to the original source of the font or to an archive that strives to keep out commercial fonts and clones of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes, that’s definitely true. And, thank you for that. That’s important.

The question today was one of Saginaw’s history, written by someone who claims to be truly interested in the typeface family’s history. Mike F. wrote

>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm honestly interested in Saginaw’s history (and I hope that you do tell us about it)
>>>>>>>>>>>

I think that the artwork side, the authorship side and the actual problems caused by greedy resellers during the early '90s are all important facets of the typeface family’s history.

ITC Studio Script is a separate typeface that was derived from Headliners' Saginaw before Treacyfaces became involved with Headliners. Questions about the relationship between Headliners' Saginaw and ITC Studio Script should be directed to International Typeface Corporation. I think that historians here will find that ITC published complete authorship information about that typeface when it debuted in their U&lc publication.

Otherwise, I think I've simply answered this morning’s question.

The answer does span some 45 years. The historical account includes my recent updates and expansions to it. Presented as fact, not as ad copy.

If it’s too verbose, I have no retort. I try to keep postings as spartan as possible.

I don't know Philippe2 or of his writing skills, or Mike F., except through his question.

And I had said (and it’s worth repeating) that

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WTF is ... an excellent informational tool and MyFonts.com should be congratulated for introducing it. And the gurus here should be commended for their seemingly indefatiguable yeoman effort.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think that’s a complement for all the volunteers' hard work, yes?

To Mike F. –

I hope I've thoroughly answered your question about TFSaginaw. You mentioned

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I expected clarification, though, not an attack.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It’s my sincere hope that upon re-reading what I wrote, it will become clear that I'm not ‘attacking’ anyone, not anyone here, and certainly not MyFonts.com. As I say, I think the volunteers here do a great job.

Thanks again for your interest in our TFSaginaw.

Regards,

(Joe)

Joseph D. Treacy
President & Director of Typography
Treacyfaces, Inc.
treacyfaces.com
-------------------------------

3645d 5h 7m 52s ago
J-Louise Heron:

Joe.

Thank you for your explanation. We sometimes become a very sensitive lot, and as you see, are very supportive of one another.

Sometime it is difficult to interpret the words as they were meant. Without the facial gesture, the smile, the good will - and since we do not know your voice to see exactly where the inflections are (or the sarcasm) we don't always get it right.

I myself have been attacked on numerous occasions just because of that. I have straightforwardly told someone - it’s a commerical font or it’s drawn, no font exists, and it is not what they want to hear. Instead of reading what the truth is, they choose to feel it was an attack. Joe, that is how your first note here does appear to me. I wish I could lend you my bad eyes so you can see what I mean.

Meanwhile, thank you again, and I hope you will continue to contribute.

Jackie

3645d 4h 58m 26s ago
treacyfaces:

Hi –

You're quite welcome. And – no problem!

:-)

I'm not a gruff, vindictive or argumentative person by nature, believe me.

And I know that all here love type equally.

It warms my heart to hear that the volunteers' goal here is type education.

More power to you.

Joe

3645d 4h 28m 16s ago
Eyehawk:

Allow me to add my 2¢. I didn't see an attack in TF’s original response. I thought he answered the question with due respect, but not knowing who the folks are that come on daily here, I think he was a bit in the dark.

Heron did a great job of clearing up the matter.

Re the two faces being discussed here, not everyone would know which came first, or if one might be a knock-off. I received Studio Script with a program years ago, and don't even remember which program, or when.

The few experts that come aboard here are truely amazing. It is fun to watch them operate. As an artist, I have only learned fonts the hard way. Over the years, I learned about fonts through use, and not the way they learned them. I like pitching in for the same reasons Heron spoke of. It is a kick, even if I am unappreciated now and then.

Personally, I like the fact that a type designer is coming to give his knowledge freely, but shorter posts are usually easier read. Just my opinion, of course.

Thanks, Joe

3644d 23h 24s ago
treacyfaces:

You're very welcome.

Thanks again, all.

Joe

3644d 22h 18m 19s ago
Mike F.:

Joe - Thanks very much for the background on not only Saginaw, but Headliners in general as well. Interesting stuff.

Your informative posts have, unfortunately, only muddied the waters a bit more about one important thing, though - the reason for your displeasure in your initial post.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but looking at the 3day.com website, it seems quite clear that solarsim was correct (as usual) in his/her ID of ITC Studio Script. It appears that all of the characters used there come from a mix of the three fonts in that family - including a few buried deep in the character map of Studio Script Alt 2. This is in comparison with TF Saginaw Medium, for which several of the characters are not quite a match to the posted image (using your very nice Type Sampler).

>>> ITC Studio Script is a separate typeface that was derived from Headliners' Saginaw before Treacyfaces became involved with Headliners. Questions about the relationship between Headliners' Saginaw and ITC Studio Script should be directed to International Typeface Corporation. I think that historians here will find that ITC published complete authorship information about that typeface when it debuted in their U&lc publication. <<<

You at least seem, then, to be giving legitimacy to ITC Studio Script as a separate entity.

>>> Is it the purpose of What The Font to point to knockoffs when original designs are available? <<<

This is where I'm confused. Were you referring to solarsim’s linking to ITC Studio Script (which is how I read it) or to the free font Angelina? If the latter, Angelina is a very different font and probably of little use to the original poster. If the former, then in light of what you wrote and the fact that the ID is spot on, I don't understand. And I can't see us having done anything differently.

Thanks again for the historical information.

Jackie - who isn't calm?

3644d 19h 50m 58s ago
yen-chih:

Case marked solved.

3500d 2h 2m 51s ago

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